A Chat with Harriet Schock

On Monday, October 26, 1998 Harriet Schock was the special guest on our weekly songwriter web chat. Below is a complete logged transcript of the chat.
..........................Harriet joined............. :)
[JodiMuse] Hi Harriet. :-)
[Harriet] Type HEREHi, Jodi
[Harriet] Oh, I see.
[JodiMuse] No problem. It's really pretty easy once you get
the hang of it.
[JodiMuse] Just type and hit enter. *chuckle*
...........................michelle joined............. :)
[Harriet] Is it a Michelle I know?
[JodiMuse] Hi Michelle. Welcome. :-)
[michelle] yes . . it is
...........................neonralph joined............. :)
[JodiMuse] Hey Ralph! :-)
neonralph Good evening all!
[Harriet] Good! V or F?
[michelle] F
[Harriet] Good!!!
[michelle] i wouldn't miss it honey
[JodiMuse] So how's everyone doing? I'm not moderating
for now... I figure it's much less stuffy that way. *chuckle*
[neonralph] Doing good here...busy as usual!
[Harriet] Fine here. Just hoping I don't get kicked offline
prematurely.
[neonralph] Welcome to the Songwriting Lounge, Harriet!
[Harriet] Had some server problems recently but I think it's
solved
[Harriet] Thanks, Ralph.
...........................Dgro joined............. :)
[JodiMuse] Glad to hear it, Harriet. Don't worry. We'll just
pause if your server has problems. It happens sometimes.
Hi Dgro!
[neonralph] Hey Dgro!
[Dgro] HI...20 minutes to class again
...........................cjrat joined............. :)
[neonralph] Where is everyone logging in from?
[neonralph] Hello cjrat!
[cjrat] Type HEREhello
[Dgro] one of the labs at CSUH
[neonralph] Hayward?
[Dgro] yea
[Dgro] Michelle, we've never cybermet
............................michelle left ............. :(
[JodiMuse] Hiya, Cjrat. :)
[Dgro] harriet we've never cyber met
[Harriet] I believe you're right.
[JodiMuse] I'm in Toronto Canada, Ralph - but you knew that. ;-)
[Dgro] I'm a lyricist
[Harriet] Ok. That's great.
[neonralph] Yup! :-) I'm in Riverside, California...and you
knew that!
...........................JeffM joined............. :)
[Harriet] I don't know where anyone is, so I'm happy to hear.
JeffM Hi!
[Harriet] Hi, Jeff!
[neonralph] Hello Jeff!
[Dgro] Hi, Jeff...JM and Jeff thanks for this chat
[JodiMuse] Let me know how long you want to wait before
we start things off guys. Then I'll simply ask people to type
a "?" if they want to ask a question and wait to be called
on. Jeff? How about you moderate this time around? It
gets confusing if more than one person does it. *chuckle*
That ok with you, ralph?
JeffM> I'm glad you could make it, Harriet
[neonralph] Sound good to me!
[Harriet] Thanks, Jeff. And I appreciate what you did on
your site for me.
[neonralph] *Sounds*
[JodiMuse] What do you think, Jeff? And yes! THANK you
for coming, Harriet! We're very pleased to have you here.
JeffM>Okay with me
[Harriet] I'm delighted. We can start any time.
[Dgro] JM, proper intro
...........................Fox joined............. :)
[Harriet] Hi, Michelle!
JeffM>I'm at work -- it's after hours, but there's always the
possibility I'll get pulled away
[Fox] hi.
[JodiMuse] Hi Fox. Welcome!
[neonralph] Hello, Fox!
JeffM> So if that happens, please take over :-)
[JodiMuse] If you get pulled away, just warn us and Ralph
or myself will take over. No problem. :-)
JeffM> Okay
JeffM> Hi Fox
[JodiMuse] We're going to be moderating here when the
chat starts. Just type a "?" if you want to ask a question
and Jeff will let you know when to ask it, ok?
...........................lukah joined............. :)
JeffM> Should we wait a few minutes, or would you rather start?
JeffM> Hi Lukah
JeffM> I think maybe just a couple more minutes
[Dgro] Hi Luhka
[neonralph] Hey Lukah!
[lukah] Hi, everyone!
[Harriet] Hello, Llukah.
[JodiMuse] I think we should wait just a few minutes, Jeff.
Just to see. Yup. :-) Hi Lukah! Good to see you. :-)
[lukah] Thanks! :)
[JodiMuse] Harriet, lukah & Dgro are two of our "regulars".
*chuckle*
[lukah] Yup!! ;-)
[Harriet] Good! Then they'll know better what to do than I will.
[JodiMuse] You're doing fine. :-) Nothing to it.
[Harriet] I just got back from Dallas where I was interviewed
on a radio show, and it seemed strange to have to say it
wihtout typing.
[JodiMuse] *laugh* How'd it go, do you think?
...........................bugs joined............. :)
JeffM> Hi bugs!
[neonralph] Hey bugs!
[JodiMuse] Hi Bugs!
[Harriet] It went great.
[JodiMuse] Glad to hear it!
[bugs] Type HEREhey what up
[JodiMuse] You forgot the "doc". ;-)
...........................mike  joined............. :)
............................cjrat left ............. :(
[neonralph] Hello mike!
[JodiMuse] Hi mike. Welcome!
JeffM> Hi mike 
[Harriet] Hi, mike.
[bugs] hi
[bugs] is everyone in the contest
[JodiMuse] What contest, bugs?
[mike]  hello
[bugs] unisong
[lukah] Not me ...
[JodiMuse] Ah... No. Ralph is involved in that. I actually
entered a couple of songs. But that's as far as my
involvement goes. ;-)
[neonralph] <--unisong :-)
[Harriet] I'm judging the John Lennon songwriting contest
tomorrow. Is that ok to say or is it competition with a
sponsor. ;)
[bugs] this is the unisong chat room isnt it
[neonralph] No problem at all, Harriet!
[neonralph] Will these be the finals?
[Harriet] I'm not sure what they need. I got a message
when I was in Dallas that NAS needed me to help out judging.
[JodiMuse] It's co-sponsored by UNISONG, bugs. It's
actually a co-venture between Jeff Mallett, myself at The
Muse's Muse and Ralph here at UNISONG.
[neonralph] Bugs, Unisong is a co-sponsor of this room,
together with the Muse's Muse and Jeff's Songwriter's site.
[JodiMuse] That's so cool, Harriet! Hope it goes really well.
JeffM> Just say whatever you want, Harriet
[Harriet] That's a dangerous admonition.
JeffM> but more fun!
[neonralph] Ah yes...I worked on the NAS panel last year
with Dan Kimpel.
[Harriet] Right. How's that little girl who's such a good
songwriter?
[Harriet] Good, Ralph. He's a good guy.
[JodiMuse] What do you say we start guys? There seem to
be more than enough people here to ask questions. :-)
[Harriet] Okay.
JeffM> That's okay with me too
[bugs] yo
JeffM> Okay everybody....
[neonralph] OK!
JeffM> Etiquette: Please type a "?" if you want to ask a question
JeffM> Our special guest tonight is Harriet Schock: songwriter,
JeffM> performer, songwriting teacher, and also a writer about
............................Fox left ............. :(
JeffM> songwriting. She currently teaches songwriting in L.A.
JeffM> and her latest CD release is entitled "Rosebud". She
JeffM> also has a new book out called "Becoming Remarkable"
JeffM> Maybe we should start by soliciting a little
auto-biography from you, Harriet?
[Harriet] I was born in Dallas. I moved to L.A. in the
seventies. Do we start that far back?
[Harriet] I've recorded five albums as a solo artist.
[JodiMuse] *chuckle* Go for it!
JeffM> Sure!
...........................Jonny joined............. :)
[bugs] ?
[Harriet] I wrote a song which became a number one
record for Helen Reddy. It was "Ain't No Way To Treat A
Lady."
............................Dgro left ............. :(
JeffM> (How about just typing a blank line when you're
done, Harriet)
[Harriet] She heard my record on the radio and recorded
it. I've written lots of songs for film and TV--The New
Adventures Of Pippi Longstocking, the animated Secret
Garden, Motown's The Last Dragon...
...........................songworld joined............. :)
[songworld] Type HERE Is Harriet Schock here?
[Harriet] Nik Venet produced my most recent two albums
and I'm recently promoting the fifth one and my new
book.
JeffM> Yes, songworld, she's typing to us now -- Please
type a "?" if you want to ask a question
...........................Fox joined............. :)
[Harriet] I teach songwriting all over the world over the
internet, fax, phone and mail
[Harriet] The book is a series of articles I've been writing for
the last six years. Jeff has them on his site.
[Harriet] I'm through now.
JeffM> :-)
[Fox] ?
............................songworld left ............. :(
JeffM> Thanks. Your question, bugs
............................mike left ............. :(
[bugs] what do you use to write with, a guitar
[Harriet] No, I
[Harriet] I'm a keyboard player so i use piano.
[Harriet] I wish when I pack up the pianio for concerts I had
taken up guitar.
[Fox] When will you be performing next?
[bugs] ok
............................lukah left ............. :(
[Harriet] I have a concert November 7th in Los Angeles.
And I'm going to Florida Nov. 21.
...........................lukah joined............. :)
[neonralph] ?
[Fox] where's the concert in los angeles?
[Harriet] If anyone in the L.A. area wants details, they can
email me.
JeffM> Address?
[Fox] what's your e-mail address?
[Harriet] It's in Hollywood at a beautiful room called the
Garden Pavilion. My email addrss is
hschock@relaypoint.net
...........................Jared joined............. :)
JeffM> Go ahead, ralph
...........................Qabalah joined............. :)
............................Qabalah left ............. :(
JeffM> hi Jared
[Harriet] I also have a new website I'd like people to see:
[Harriet]schock.com
...........................Qabalah joined............. :)
[Qabalah] Hi Everyone!
[Harriet] I Jared..
[neonralph] How would you describe your music on your
latest release?
[Harriet] I meant, Hi.
[Jared] Hello Everyone
[Jared] Hello Harriet
[Harriet] My latest CD is a pop album in some ways, in that
it has melody.
JeffM> To our newly joined people: Our guest speaker
tonight is Harriet Schock. I'm moderating Please type a "?"
if you want to ask her a question.
[Harriet] But lyrically, it has a film concept in almost every
song. It is full of pictures and deals with subjects not often
talked about in strictly pop music.
[Harriet] There are sound bytes on my website.
...........................mike joined............. :)
[JodiMuse] It's a *beautiful* album guys. I can attest to
that. Most definitely.
JeffM> I think so too
[Harriet] Thank you, Jodi and Jeff.
[Harriet] Is anyone on here from L.A.?
............................neonralph left ............. :(
...........................Frank joined............. :)
[Qabalah] Yup me, (George H)
JeffM> Neon was, but he just got booted off his connection
apparently
...........................neonralph joined............. :)
...........................jcrat joined............. :)
[neonralph] I'm an hour east of LA...
............................Jonny left ............. :(
[Harriet] Ok, George and Ralph, emaiil me at
hschock@relaypoint.net when this is over. I want to tell
you about the Nov. 7 concert.
[neonralph] Will do!
[Qabalah] okay, will do
[JodiMuse] Can you tell us about it here, Harriet? People
will read this in the log later and it might help!
JeffM> hi jcrat: Our guest speaker tonight is Harriet Schock.
I'm moderating. Please type a "?" if you want to ask her a
question.
[Harriet] I'm excited that I'll have the whole band with me
this time. It's at 8pm Sat.,Nov. 7th
JeffM> How many in your band?
[Harriet] at Celebrity Centre in Hollywood, at the corner of
Franlin and Bronson. Marty Riifkin is also playing pedal
steel but I didn't find out until
[Harriet] the invitations were printed. There's drums, bass,
guitar, I play keyboard, viola/violin and pedal steel.
[Harriet] And three backup singers.
[Qabalah] The last time I saw you there it was really good
[Harriet] When was that?
[Harriet] Oh, in June?
[Qabalah] yah June
[Harriet] I played with the whole band at the Gallaxy in
Orange County, but
[Harriet] at Celebrity Centre, they have a George
Massenberg board. It's the best sound I've ever heard.
[Harriet] They also have a killer grand piano.
[bugs] ?
JeffM> Go ahead bugs:
[bugs] do you play the east coast
[Harriet] I just got back a few months ago...
[Harriet] I played N.Y., Philly and Baltimore.
[Harriet] Do you know Lehman College in the Bronx?
[bugs] did you play nc
[Harriet] Do you mean North Carolina?
[Harriet] Or N.Y.City?
[bugs] yea
[Harriet] No, just the Bronx. It was amazing at this college.
It was part of a Freshman program to bring me in.
[Harriet] Now that the book is coming out at the end of the
month, I'll be traveling more.
............................Fox left ............. :(
JeffM> Next question anyone?
[bugs] try the walnut creek
[Harriet] I'll make a note of it.
[neonralph] ?
JeffM> go neon
[neonralph] Who are your influences, lyrically and musically?
[Harriet] I think everyone has been influenced by Joni
Mitchell, especially lyrically...
[Harriet] I play keyboard so everyone compares me to
Carole King musically, although occasionally I'll get
Elton John.
[Harriet] Actually my influences are probably the same as
theirs. Lots of classical composers and lots of R&B and
gospel
............................mike left ............. :(
...........................mike joined............. :)
JeffM> How long have you been playing piano? Start as kid?
[Qabalah] ? classical composers, such as?
[Harriet] Lyrically, I think Don Henley and Joni Mitchell
would be the ones I'd think of first, some Paul Simon and
Bob Dylan.
[Harriet] I did start at 4 playing by ear.
............................Frank left ............. :(
[Harriet] I studied piano but my ear always won out.
JeffM> Music is for listening to ultimately
JeffM> We had a question of which classical composers
are your favorites?
............................jcrat left ............. :(
JeffM> (or influences)
[Harriet] I love the melodic ones like Beethoven and
Mozart and Tchykowski (sp()
...........................Vic joined............. :)
[Harriet] And I also love the discipline of Bach and the
wildness of Stravinsky, the
[Vic] hello
...........................IreneJ joined............. :)
...........................clemstreet joined............. :)
JeffM> Hi Vic, Irene, clemstreet...Our guest speaker tonight
is Harriet Schock. I'm moderating. Please type a "?" if you
want to ask her a question.
[Qabalah] hi Vic, Irene
...........................jcrat joined............. :)
[Harriet] Mahler also gets me.
JeffM> Next question from the audience...?
[Qabalah] ?
[IreneJ] Hi there everyone...
JeffM> Qab: go ahead
[JodiMuse] Hi Irene! :-)
[JodiMuse] Hi there, Vic.
...........................Frank joined............. :)
[Harriet] I left Aaron Copeland out. Love him.
[Qabalah] Who are some of your favorite pop songwriters as
far as meloy goes?
[lukah] He's great!!
[Qabalah] oops - melody
[Harriet] I really like Eldra Debarge.
[Harriet] I like Kenny Loggins...
[Vic] hello everyone
[Harriet] I like Paul Simon
[Harriet] I like Paula Cole, especially her first CD.
[Harriet] I like melody that isn't embarrassed to be melody.
[bugs] ?
JeffM> go ahead bugs
[bugs] what is the name of your new cd
[Harriet] rosebud
[bugs] ok ill get it
[Harriet] It's packaged into the back of the book. Thanks.
[jcrat] ?
JeffM> And you'll be able to get the book from your website?
[Harriet] Yes. If someone wants the CD, I have a link to the
record company's site.
............................Jared left ............. :(
JeffM> Go ahead jcrat
[bugs] its not in record stores
[Vic] can veryone here say hi to mike, he's a little shy
...........................Jared joined............. :)
[bugs] hi
[Qabalah] hi mike!!!
[Harriet] It will be distributed nationally after the first of the
year. Right now it's available from the record company site.
[JodiMuse] *chuckle* Hi mike. If you want to ask a
question, just type a "?" and we'll get to you. :-) Have fun!
[Harriet] Or at the back of the book where it's distributed.
[bugs] ok
JeffM> jcrat?
[jcrat] why diives you to keep writing?
[jcrat] drives
[Harriet] I am not a writer who grinds it out every day.
[Harriet] If I don't have something to say, I don't write.
Unless a film director calls me.
[Harriet] Then I get inspired. I have my ways.
[Frank] Harriet , can you tell us about the book?
[Harriet] It's a compliation of all the 48 articles I've written
on songwriting that have been published
[IreneJ] ?
JeffM> I've read the articles, they're great!
[Harriet] over the last six years. They were organized into
chapters and the legendary Nik Venet wrote the foreword.
I'm very fortunate to quote him all thirough the book.
[Frank] the cd and the book come together?
[JodiMuse] Definitely. Wonderful stuff. :-) I was actually
moved to tears by a few of them. *chuckle* Then again, I
cry in commercials. ;-)
JeffM> Yes, Frank, or the CD also comes separately
JeffM> And the book will be available how/when?
...........................Lynn joined............. :)
[Harriet] Yes, the CD is packaged in the back of the book.
The publisher thought it illustrated the principles in the
book.
............................mike left ............. :(
............................bugs left ............. :(
JeffM> Hi Lynn: Our guest speaker tonight is Harriet Schock.
I'm moderating. Please type a "?" if you want to ask her a
question.
[Harriet] The book is available on my website:
[Harriet]schock.com It's also available
JeffM> Go ahead Irene
...........................mike joined............. :)
[Harriet] at Amazon. com and at the Blue Dolphin website.
Soon it will be in lots of stores.
[jcrat] ?
[IreneJ] Thanks Jeff...I just have one question and then I
unfortunately have to run...
[Harriet] Okay. Shoot.
[IreneJ] I'm wondering Harriet (please to meet you, by the
way) what you do to get past the same old chord
progessions when you're writing...
............................Vic left ............. :(
[Harriet] I think it's good to get away from your instrument.
Take a walk or just sit in front of a tape recorder without
an instrument.
[JodiMuse] Good question, Irene!
[Harriet] Your voice will go places your instrument would
not let you.
[Harriet] It's your hands that remember the patterns, not
your imagination.
[IreneJ] That's very true...never thought of doing that!
JeffM> jcrat...
[Jared] ?
[IreneJ] Thankyou Harriet :-)
[jcrat] define the elements of a remarkable song
............................clemstreet left ............. :(
...........................jose joined............. :)
[Harriet] Melody that makes delivers the message...
[Harriet] Lyric that communicates directly and with
emotional impact
JeffM> Hi clemstreet, hi jose. Our guest speaker tonight is
Harriet Schock. Please type a "?" if you want to ask her a
question.
[Harriet] And a truth that will last longer than the charts.
............................jose left ............. :(
[Lynn] Type HEREAre we talking a particular style of music
or a general song
[jcrat] ah....truth
[Harriet] No genre bias.
[Harriet] Yep. That thing.
[JodiMuse] I think Truth is a good thing for all genres, don't
you?
[jcrat] it's the truth that touches people
[Harriet] I do. Some genres deal with it more than others,
but I like it in all.
[IreneJ] A universal truth
[Harriet] JCRAT is quoting my mentor, Nik Venet, whom I
quote in the book.
[JodiMuse] It could be a little truth. :-) Anything that
touches the heart fo the listener...
[Harriet] A universal truth is just a truth that lots of people
see as truth. But first it has to be true for you.
[Harriet] Jodi, we were writing the same thing at the same time.
JeffM> aint that the truth
...........................jose joined............. :)
JeffM> go ahead jared...
[Harriet] In my book I clarify the difference between truth
and fact.
[Jared] I'm new to this stuff, but I have a few songs on a
demo..now I'm lost..any advice on how to go about
getting them heard?
...........................clemstreet joined............. :)
[IreneJ] Sheesh...I wish I could hang around longer...best
of luck with your book Harriet
[Lynn] I feel some people try too hard with the melody and
therefore they loose singability. I think you need to have a
melody that people will begin to hum right away
[Harriet] Thanks, Irene.
[IreneJ] Bye all!
............................IreneJ left ............. :(
[Harriet] First Jared asked about how to get things heard.
My answer to you is most people get their songs heard too
early.
[Harriet] If you play them for anyone and they're really
great, then word will spread.
............................lukah left ............. :(
[Lynn] What do you mean?
[Harriet] Regarding Lynn's question on singability, I agree
it should be singable.
............................jose left ............. :(
...........................lukah joined............. :)
[Harriet] I mean that remarkable songwritng gets heard
once it gets performed or played at all. There are many
outlets for that.
............................Qabalah left ............. :(
[Jared] but everyone says its not what you know, its who
you know..but I don't know anyone in this business
...........................jose joined............. :)
[Harriet] Most people spend all their time trying to get
heard rather than trying to learn to write something worth
hearing.
[Harriet] EVeryone doesn't say that.
[Lynn] Yes, but how do you get the right people to hear
your songs. Where does a writer go?
[Harriet] There are contests, there are organizations, there
are coaches, there are showcases. Where the heck do you live?
[Jared] well, thats true....its just that family and friends is
all that have heard it
............................neonralph left ............. :(
[Harriet] Do you perform, Jared?
[Lynn] In Iowa and there isn't a lot here.
...........................neonralph joined............. :)
[Harriet] Okay, but the National Academy of Songwriters is
National. And I help people all over the world.
............................Frank left ............. :(
[Lynn] This is great, I'm learning tonight.
[Harriet] Any publisher who accepts material will listen.
But chances are you're mailing it too early.
[Jared] no, I've just wriiten and recorded...I don't know
what to do now
[Lynn] You mean it need fine tuning?
[Harriet] Good, Lynn. I don't mean to be discouraging or
insulting, but most people need fine tuning, as Lynn puts it.
[Harriet] It's catastrophic to mail too early. They remember
you when you come back, all better.
............................mike left ............. :(
[Harriet] But they remember you as an amateur.
...........................mike joined............. :)
[Harriet] There are also songwriter newsgroups where they
critique each other, but most of these are the deaf
leading the deaf, in my opinion.
JeffM> next question...?
[neonralph] That's some strong advice...and excellent as well.
[Harriet] I'm from Texas. Sorry if I shoot from the hip.
JeffM> ouch
...........................Frank joined............. :)
[jcrat] those are some sharp hips
[JodiMuse] *chuckle* It's good advice, Harriet. No need to
apologize.
[Harriet] That's good. Thanks.
[Lynn] Harriet, it is great! I'm tired of people beating
around the bush!
[Harriet] Okay. I'm glad.
[mike]  ?
JeffM> go ahead mike 
...........................Qabalah joined............. :)
[Lynn] When someone purchases your song to use on their
album, and you sign the contract, then is it out of your
hands as far as what they do with it?
[Harriet] First of all, they don't purchase it.
[Harriet] They license it from the publisher.
[Lynn] Well, that is what I mean
[Harriet] Then unless they change it, it's up to them what
they do.
[Lynn] okay
[Harriet] It is so out of your hands, you will be wringing
them when you hear most of the records.
JeffM> :-)
[jose] when you sign a deal with a publisher usually how
long does the publisher own half the rights to your
compositions?
...........................RC joined............. :)
[Qabalah] hi RC
[Harriet] It depends on the deal. If they're paying you, they
may get them forever. Sometimes the rights revert back.
Often you keep half the publishing.
[Harriet] Remember, the publishing is only half the rights.
You also have the writers' rights.
[Harriet] Unless the publisher is Saban. But that's not a
usual pracice, nor an ethical one, in my opinion.
[jose] as far as what...creative control?
[Harriet] No as far as who gets the money.
............................clemstreet left ............. :(
[jcrat] ?
[Lynn] what is the split?
[Qabalah] keeping half the publishing too would mostly
apply to established writers... is that true?
[jcrat] what is the differencr between writers share and
publishing share?
[Harriet] Without a contract, the publisher gets half and the
writer gets half. When you sign away your publishing you
still get the writers half. But some established
............................lukah left ............. :(
...........................lukah joined............. :)
[JodiMuse] Can I interject here for a moment?
JeffM> sure :-)
[Harriet] writers get to keep half the publishing when they
make a deal, or more, and then they get the writers half
and part of the publishing, which was theirs until they
signed it away for money.
[Harriet] Should I only answer questions when they've gone
thorugh you, Jodi?
[Harriet] Or Jeff?
[JodiMuse] Just a very short plug. ;-) In the upcoming issue
of The Muse's News (the newsletter off of The Muse's
Muse), I'll be putting in a general call for questions of this
sort - publishing, royalty and copyright questions. We'll be
having a regular q&a with a publisher who has agreed to
donate her time adn I'm very excited about it. So if you
have such a question, please e-mail me at jodi@musesmuse.com
JeffM> No, Harriet
[JodiMuse] No, Harriet. Jeff is moderating. I just interrupted
for a moment. :-)
...........................clemstreet joined............. :)
[Qabalah] hay clem
JeffM> It's a small crowd
JeffM> Cool Jodi
[JodiMuse] That's all I wanted to say. :-) I thought it was
pretty nifty. :-)
[Qabalah] hay ya'll... it's been fun but the muse is calling,
so...
[Harriet] Jodi, your newsletter offers a very valuable service.
[Qabalah] see ya Nov 7
............................Jared left ............. :(
............................Qabalah left ............. :(
JeffM> bye, Qab, next question?
[Harriet] Good!
...........................Jared joined............. :)
[Harriet] This chat room has a swinging door.
[Lynn] Can you explain your book for us newcomers
[Harriet] Sure.
[Harriet] The book is my observations on songwriting that
have been published monthly in songwriting newspapers
[JodiMuse] Oops! Send that to the wrong person. Sure
does, Harriet. And thanks. I do the best I can with it.
[jose] Is there still a practive of tying in a recording
contract for an artist with his publishing?
[Lynn] Okay, do you write too?
............................Frank left ............. :(
[Lynn] Thanks for the information...I'll go and look for your
book. Gotta run!
RC H all
JeffM> Hi RC. Please type a "?" if you want to ask Harriet
Schock a question and I'll call on you. That way we won't
lots of questions all at once.
............................mike left ............. :(
...........................Frank joined............. :)
[Lynn] Hi Frank
...........................mike joined............. :)
JeffM> Did you understand jose's question, Harriet?
...........................harriet joined............. :)
[Harriet] I'm back. I lost connection.
JeffM> Happens to the best of us!
[Harriet] What questions did I miss?
JeffM> jose?
[Lynn] ?do you write also?
[Harriet] Do you mean write songs?
[Lynn] Yes, I'm sorry if I offended you. That is what I mean.
[Harriet] That's how I've made a living for over 20 years.
............................jcrat left ............. :(
[Lynn] Wow!
[Harriet] I guess I should have explained better in the
beginning, but I've been a professioinal songwriter since
the seventies.
[Harriet] When I could spell "professional."
[jose] ?
JeffM> go ahead jose
[jose] do you feel writers are getting a fairer shake today as
oppposed to when you started?
[Lynn] Okay, so now...how did you get discovered and what
words of wisdom can you send us to have our songs
listened too. I know you said don't send them too soon.
What else?
............................lukah left ............. :(
[Harriet] Lynn, I"m going to answer jose first. Jose, I feel it's
worse today, in a way. In some ways, but in others it's
better.
...........................lukah joined............. :)
[Lynn] Jeff...I'll go through you...now I understand what you
mean by "?" Sorry
JeffM> Examples of better and worse?
JeffM> thanks, Lynn
[Harriet] I'll explain. Some greedy publishers are trying to
take the writers half. Restaurant owners don't wnat to pay
royalties ror using music in their places of business.
............................clemstreet left ............. :(
[Harriet] It's better in that you can bypass record
companies and go directly to consumers, but you had
better have the goods when you do that.
[jose] ?
[Harriet] In other words, if you're going to get your songs
diredctly to the public, without the industry hype, they'd
better be good.
...........................clemstreet joined............. :)
............................Harriet left ............. :(
............................Jared left ............. :(
JeffM> you have a follow-up, jose? go ahead
[Harriet] But now that there are more listening rooms, it's
easier.
[Harriet] In the seventes, the only place I could play
original material were gay bars.
[jose] why is it then when I see an writer's credit he has like
four different publishing companies listed under his/her name
[Harriet] And believe me, they were not there to see the
white girl from Texas at the piano. So I had to learn to be
good enough to get their attention.
...........................Jared joined............. :)
[Harriet] Jose, do you mean when only one person has
written the song?
[jose] right
[Harriet] I have no idea who all has been cut in in order to
get the song recorded.
[Harriet] Part of something is better.., as they say...
[Harriet] Lynn, what was your question?
............................RC left ............. :(
............................Frank left ............. :(
JeffM> I'm surprised nobody has really asked more specific
craft (or art!) questions.
[jose] ?
JeffM> go ahead jose
............................mike left ............. :(
...........................Frank joined............. :)
...........................mike joined............. :)
[jose] Do you feel a writer should write all the time for the
sake of writing or really use inspiration as motivation of
his/her craft
[Harriet] I think you should write in a journal every day.
[Harriet] That doesn't mean you should write songs every day.
[jose] just write what's on your mind that day?
[Harriet] Writing in a journal can be many things.
[Harriet] It's not necessarily what's on your mind, although
it can be.
[Harriet] It can be what you observe, what truth you draw
from it, or a realization.
[jose] so you can refer to it later for material?
[Harriet] Have you ever read any modern poetry?
[jose] not really
............................neonralph left ............. :(
[Harriet] You may refer to it later, but it hones your writing
skills.
[JodiMuse] Hell, it would be good or you anyway. You
really get in touch with your Self that way. And that's a
great way to learn how to find the truth in your songs.
...........................neonralph joined............. :)
[Harriet] Modern poets like Charles Bukowsky, Alice Walker
...these poeple are reallyhimportant to read.
JeffM> You write poetry, Harriet?
[Harriet] I think the problem wiht most writers is that they
just don't know what good writing is.
............................lukah left ............. :(
[Harriet] I do write poetry, I started that way. But it's just for
me.
[Harriet] I think songwriting is a form of emotional
shorthand like poetry. But how can a person
............................Lynn left ............. :(
[Harriet] expect to write songs when they haven't read any
peotry since poetry rhymed and was all flowery?
[Harriet] It's like saying you're a film maker but you only
watch TV or something.
[Harriet] You need to know this stuff.
[Harriet] If you only study a hybrid form like songwriting,
you aren't studying the roots of the writers you admire.
............................clemstreet left ............. :(
[jose] excellent point
[Harriet] The writers you admire have read poetry and
listened to classical music, probalby.
...........................lukah joined............. :)
[Harriet] Thanks, Jose. I'm down from my soapbox, now.
[jose] yes
JeffM> Tired of typing yet, Harriet? Just let me know when
you want to wrap the chat up. Okay? It's very generous of
you to be here to help us write better.
...........................JohnnyA joined............. :)
[Harriet] I can tell when a student has been reading
Charles Buckowski. You may not even like him, but he'll
have an effect on
[Harriet] his/her sense of irony, the edge to the lyric, the
economy of words
[Harriet] the emotional impact. It's amazing. I can explain
till I'm blue in the face, but if they read that, they'll finally
get it.
[Harriet] But don't read it to your mother.
[jose] Thank you so very much for your valuable
advice...goodnight everyone...thank you Jeff
[Harriet] Whenever you think people are out of questions,
we can call it a night.
[Harriet] Thank you, Jeff and Jodi.
[Harriet] Goodnight.
JeffM> Okay. Questions...?
[JodiMuse] Bye Jose!
...........................angel joined............. :)
[mike]  ?
JeffM> go ahead mike
............................jose left ............. :(
...........................lukah joined............. :)
[mike]  Which way should one approach a song melody first
or lyrics
[Harriet] I think it helps to know what you want to say. Then
get a title.
[angel] Type HEREI am looking for someone who might
know the song "Jump, Jive & Whales" It is an old one.
[Harriet] In my course, I have nine different steps. They're
confidential, but they go back and forth between lyric
and melody.
[Harriet] But it starts with a communication, not a riff.
............................Jared left ............. :(
............................Frank left ............. :(
[mike]  do you show them in your book
...........................Jared joined............. :)
JeffM> angle: tonight we're having a scheduled chat with
a special guest, Harriet Schock.
[Harriet] My book does not have my confidential exercises
in it. But there's plenty of other stuff I hear people say
helps them.
JeffM> (angel)
[mike]  like what
[Harriet] There are 48 chapters, all on different subjects.
[Harriet] It deals with the language of songwriting, which is
in fact a foreign language.
[Harriet] If you want to go to my website, you can read
some, along with quotes from people who have gotten a
lot from the book.
JeffM> That's http://www.harrietschock.com
[Harriet] I have some very stellar people giving quotes. i'd
rather you read what they say.
[mike]  Do you think it ever is to late to master the craft of
song writting
[Harriet] Thanks, Jeff. mike, I'm not holding out on you. It's
never too late.
[Harriet] Look at Grandma Moses' s paintings.
[Harriet] It's too late when you've sent your CD to everyone
in L.A. and Nashville.
[mike]  your right
JeffM> Okay, next "?" ?
[mike]  What other readings do you recomend, beside yours
[Harriet] I think you should be reading writers who write
poetry, like I said, and novels. My chapter called "Do You
Read" has lots of authors listed.
............................angel left ............. :(
............................lukah left ............. :(
[Harriet] If you mean songwritng books, read Jodi's
newsletter. She mentions some.
[mike]  thank you
[JohnnyA] ?
JeffM> go ahead JohnnyA
[Harriet] My book is about becoming remarkable, not about
becoming commercially successful, although they often
happen simultaneously.
[Harriet] You're welcome.
[JohnnyA] I often come up with melodies and lyrics, but
being musically inept can't figure what to do with them,
any suggestions
[Harriet] I suppose you mean you get the molody but can't
come up with the chords?
[JohnnyA] yeah
[Harriet] Do you play an instrumetn?
[JodiMuse] Thanks, Harriet. As a matter of fact, I give away
a book every issue to a subscriber. :-) The writers - like
yourself! - have been very generous to me.
[JohnnyA] guitar
[Harriet] I suggest you play by ear. A lot. Train your ear to
hear more and more. Your chords will get hetter.
[Harriet] Can you pick out a song by ear--I mean someone
else's?
[JohnnyA] just the chords
[Harriet] Can you pick out all the chords?
[JohnnyA] and not always exacrt
[JohnnyA] sometimes
[Harriet] If you can't hear the chords in someone's song
[Harriet] then those chords are not in your musical
vocabulary any more than
[Harriet] words you cdon't recognize in someone else's
sentence.
[JohnnyA] good point
[Harriet] Your own chords will sond arbitrray and weird.
Train your ear.
[Harriet] Or find a collaborator. That's no crime. Spread
the happiness.
[JohnnyA] Thanks, great advice
[Harriet] Thanks, Johnny.
[JohnnyA] I do like keeping to the Bob Dylan method of 3
chord progression
[Harriet] But look what he does with them.
[JohnnyA] I'll work on it, thanks Harriet
[Harriet] You're welcome.
[JodiMuse] Hey - if you have to emulate *someone*... 
[Harriet] Plus, Bob Dylan uses a lot more than 3 chords.
That's a myth.
[JohnnyA] Yeah, I've always been impressed with the way
he can string the same 3+ together
[Harriet] He uses wonderful progressions, passing tones,
bass lines, inversions. And he has so much to say.
[Harriet] He's one of three writers I mention in the
introduction of my book.
[JohnnyA] Where is your book available?
[Harriet] For now, from my website.
http://www.harrietschock.com
[Harriet] Also amazon.com and Blue Dolphin's website.
[JohnnyA] Thanks again, hope to hear from you soon,
good night
JeffM> good night, JohnnyA
[JodiMuse] Bye Johnny!
[Harriet] On Novemeber 10th at 7PM in L.A., I'm doing a
book signing and talk at Book Soup.
[Harriet] I forgot to mention that.
[lukah] 'Nite Johnny!
[JodiMuse] Cool! Wish I was in your area, Harriet. *sigh* 
JeffM> I guess you aren't pulling your piano along behind you
[Harriet] Thanks. Me too.
[Harriet] But you live in the same town as Dan Hill's from.
There's a great writer.
[Harriet] We were on 20th Century Records together.
...........................bama43 joined............. :)
[mike] ?
JeffM> go ahead mike
[neonralph] Wow...Dan Hill. Is he still writing/recording?
[Harriet] I don't know. We were friends a while back, and
then he had a number of hits after
[Harriet] "sometimes when we touch," which he wrote at
my house. Then I lost touch with him.
[Harriet] I know he wrote a novel.
[neonralph] Great stuff.
[Harriet] And a wonderful voice.
[Harriet] Once he started playing the piano, his writing
really took off, musically.
[mike] If I write aa lyric in Spanish, what is the best way to
translate it.?
[Harriet] Of course, Barry Mann wrote the melody to
"Sometimes when we touch."
[Harriet] What do you mean? Into English?
[mike] Yes
[neonralph] I did not know that.
[Harriet] What's your native language?
[mike] Spanish
[JodiMuse] Sounds like you may need a co-writer, mike - if
that's something you want to do.
[Harriet] Oh, good. Then just find an American lyricist and
tell them what it says, or just let him or her write it in
English without knowing.
[mike] Maybe
[Harriet] "Ain't No Way To Treat A Lady" was translated
into French.
[mike] Witout knowing what
[Harriet] When it was translated back to me, the title had
become "I want to love you like a woman."
[Harriet] Without knowing what it's about in Spanish.
[mike] o.k
[mike] was the music different,translated
[Harriet] The music was the same.
[Harriet] The lyric was written by a famous French lyricist. It
bacame a hit there too.
[Harriet] So I was puzzled all the way to the bank.
JeffM> C'est la vie
[Harriet] You said it.
[mike] it must be hard trying to marry the song with the lyric
............................neonralph left ............. :(
[Harriet] The song is the lyric and the melody. Many
composers call the melody the song. Are you primarily a
composer?
[Harriet] Marrying the melody and the lyric will come
easily eventually. It's extremely important.
...........................neonralph joined............. :)
[mike] I am ew at this aI am neighter
[Harriet] When you think of it, even if you write lyrics and
melody at the same tme in the first verse, you have to
write lyric to a melody in the second and third verses.
[Harriet] Was that German?
[mike] Sorry trying to write to fast
[Jared] good point Harriet!
[Harriet] What did you ask, mike ?
............................JohnnyA left ............. :(
[mike] I was just making a coment,
[Harriet] Ok, we'll take your word for that.
JeffM> He said "I am new to this altogether" (I speak German)
[Harriet] Oh! Thanks!
[Harriet] We're all still new to it in one way or another.
[Harriet] Hopefully, we're still breaking new ground in a
new artform, relatively speaking.
[neonralph] Well folks...I have to be on my way. Harriet,
thank you for your time and insight on our craft.
[Harriet] Thank you for your insightful questions. I enjoyed
it.
[JodiMuse] Bye, Ralph! Thanks for being here! :-)
............................bama43 left ............. :(
JeffM> See you, Ralph!
[lukah] Bye, Ralph! See you next time!
[neonralph] Goodbye to Jodi and Jeff and lukah and
everyone else!
JeffM> We should probably wrap up shortly on my account
too ...gotta get home...
............................neonralph left ............. :(
[mike] ?
[JodiMuse] *nod* Yeah - and we've kept Harriet here
cracking the whip for long enough, don't you think? ;-)
JeffM> go ahead mike 
[Harriet] I'm ready to sing taps any old time.
[Harriet] But go ahead, mike.
JeffM> Okay, mike's question and then good byes
[mike]  How can you best use the power of repetition in a lyric
[Harriet] That's pretty impossible to answer without seeing
the song.
[Harriet] You want to say something worth reapeating, first
of all.
[mike]  ok
[Harriet] And a good way to do it is with a song that
[Harriet] ends each verse with the title. Rather than a
chorus song.
[Harriet] That way, when that title comes in, it means
something a little different each time.
[Harriet] And it moves the listener more each time if it's
done right.
[Harriet] Did that help you?
[mike]  Yes thank you thank you
[lukah] That's great, Harriet!
[Harriet] An example of that is "The Song Remembers When."
[mike]  You are the bst
JeffM> I love songs where the title is in a different light in
each repetition
[Harriet] How nice of you. Well, goodnight everyone.
[mike]  goodnight
[lukah] Me, too, Jeff.
[JodiMuse] Goodnight! Thank you for coming by, Harriet. It
was wonderful. :-)
[mike]  thanks again
JeffM> Thank you very much for being here, Harriet!
[lukah] Bye, Harriet. Thank you SO much!!
[Harriet] Jodi, as always where you and Jeff are concerned,
it was a pleasure.
[Harriet] Bye, Lukah.
[JodiMuse] *smile* I suspect both Jeff and I will have a log
of this chat up very soon. You'll be able to relive the
moment. ;)
[Jared] goodnight harriet!! Thanks for being here to help out
JeffM> Yeah, but edit the part out where I typo'd her name wrong :-)
[lukah] Sounds good, Jodi!
[Harriet] Ok. Thanks. I enjoyed it, Jared.
[JodiMuse] *giggle* Will do, Jeff. ;-)
[Harriet] No kidding, do you correct the typos?
[mike]  Harriet it is a pleasure to know that there are
talented people like you out there, thank you
[Harriet] mike, I appreciate that.
[JodiMuse] I try when I catch them.
JeffM> Actually I don't correct typos in a chat log
[Harriet] Don't worry about it. That way, they'll know it was
live.
[mike]  It makes me whant to do better myself, you inspire
many people
[JodiMuse] I find that I only do that if it keeps someone
from understanding what's going on. 
[Harriet] mike, I'm glad.
[Harriet] Jodi, I totally agree with that. Thanks.
[Harriet] Jeff, I need to tell you about someone I met who
can hlep you. What's your email address?
[Harriet] I mean help.
[JodiMuse] I'll probably end the log before this. ;-)
[Harriet] Thanks!
JeffM> I just switched servers in the last few weeks to get
more features. So now you can email me at
*anything*@lyricist.com
[JodiMuse] Cool, Jeff!
JeffM> Example: SupremeRulerOfTheUniverse@lyricist.com
[Harriet] That was the one I was thinking of!
[JodiMuse] *giggle* Oh yeah. I'm going to e-mail you at
that address right away, Jeff. ;-)
JeffM> I'm psychic too!
[Harriet] Okay, guys. I'll be talking to you both.
[Harriet] Bye.
JeffM> take care
[JodiMuse] As a Supreme Ruler of the Univserse, you
darned well better be. ;-) Take care, Harriet!
[Harriet] Jodi, that's hilarious!
[Harriet] Goodnight.
............................mike left ............. :(
............................harriet left ............. :(
JeffM> thanx for coming lukah, Jared
[JodiMuse] I think I'll leave this last part in. I love that.
Supreme Master of the Universe... *giggle* Would you
mind, Jeff?
[lukah] Sure, Jeff. It's been great! She has great insight
into this business ...
JeffM> Oh, I knew you were going to leave it in before I
typed it (of course)!
[Jared] thank you Jeff...I really enjoyed it
[JodiMuse] She's a very talented lady, Lukah. Definitely!
[JodiMuse] *laugh* <--tickles the Supreme Being.
JeffM> <--- evaporates into the ether just in the nick of
time!
[lukah] You two are at it again ... *Sigh*
[lukah] :-)
JeffM> Nice seeing you all again. Bye!
[lukah] Bye, Jeff! Thanks!
<--- BACK TO SONGWRITER SITE

You can reach me at: JeffM>@lyricist.com
This page has been accessed 10993 times since November 8, 1998. It was last modified November 8, 1998.